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Tram film offers two-minute glimpse of the capital's transport future



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The video shows trams passing some of Edinburgh's most well-known streets and landmarks
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Published Date: 22 February 2008
THE clearest impression yet of what trams in Edinburgh will look like is shown in a new film produced by the developers.
The two-minute production by TIE, formerly known as Transport Initiatives Edinburgh, shows the single-deck vehicles as they may look when they move through the city in three years' time.

An 11-mile line will link Edinburgh airport with Newhaven, along with an expected spur between Roseburn and Granton if available funding for the £585 million scheme allows.

Trams in Lothian Buses-style red and white livery are shown passing landmarks such as Princes Street, Murrayfield stadium and Ocean Terminal.

There is also footage from York Place and Shandwick Place in the city centre, Constitution Street in Leith and in Bankhead, Edinburgh Park and Saughton.


The full article contains 139 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Nikostratos,

22/02/2008 00:25:21
Were is the link to this wonderful sight..I must see it.............
2

Normie,

Toronto 22/02/2008 03:45:45
#1:
Follow the sidebar link to Thursday's Evening News - the video's on the front page
3

livilion,

livingston 22/02/2008 07:06:32
Meantime, where's the video of the traffic congestion caused by construction work and years of under investment in Scottish transport infrastructure in general?
4

Liam,

22/02/2008 07:23:47
#3 - funny, I thought congestion was caused by ... motor cars, and motorists kidding themselves on that Scottish cities are designed like Los Angeles.

Roll on the trams. It's time the non-car owning majority's transport requirements were addressed. Lines Two, Three, Four and Five to follow.
5

eric,

Lothian 22/02/2008 07:25:48
Arent they a pretty site!Why are we insisting on ruining our town
6

Miss Jean Brodie,

22/02/2008 07:28:28
The rendition line ?
7

Joe,

A footpath in Edinburgh 22/02/2008 07:59:21
#3 The video of £634M M74 extension will be available on a TV set near you every night when it's completed.
8

carrottop,

Dumfries 22/02/2008 08:05:36
Hope they are going to be in Maroon and also in Green to keep the character of Edinburgh intact.
9

jdships,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 08:09:45


4 Liam,
"Roll on the trams. It's time the non-car owning majority's transport requirements were addressed. Lines Two, Three, Four and Five to follow."


How many of the "good citizens" of Edinburgh who don't have a car are going to be served by this set up ?
5% perhaps ?
As to "Lines Two, Three, Four and Five " anyone over thirty has no chance of ever seeing them and as for the cost ?
Another Holyrood anyone ?.
The proof of the pudding will soon be seen with the first line .
A nice tourist attraction little more !
10

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News 22/02/2008 08:25:47
There seems little room left for anything else! including of course all the vehicles whose owners pay taxes to use roads.....
11

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 08:46:15
H'mmm - Picture of Princes Street: 2 tramcars, 1 lone bicyclist (just to establish 'Green Credentials')no other traffic of any kind and no pedestrians/shop customers to be seen anywhere. And the clever young things who produced this glossy propaganda have even managed to airbrush out all the beggars, tat-vendors, phone shops, burger joints and remaindered bookshops.
Yep, that's the 'Future', right enough. Nice one, TIE.
12

531 Biker,

NQ 22/02/2008 08:49:12
#10 so that will be everybody who pays tax then as roads are paid for out of general taxation? Or are you confusing Vehicle Excise Duty with what used to be called Road Tax?
13

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 08:50:09
#4, Liam- they're called buses. Edinburgh has a comprehensive bus network that is superior to others I have travelled on. The trams are unnecessary.
14

jdships,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 09:38:42
13 Guthrie,
Now !
There is someone who talks sense !
Round of applause to you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15

Hmm ...,

22/02/2008 09:47:07
Liam (4) - sorry, there isn't a "non-car owning majority. Less than 40% of Edinburgh's residents don't have access to a car. ALthough jdships makes a good point on the small percentage people who will actually be able to use the tram to go where they want to go.

The absence of other road users airbrushed from the clip is probably the only accurate part, as the trams are to be "prioritised" which largely means roads closed to other vehicles, a huge number of no right turns and traffic lights to ensure that trams can run unimpeded - and their passengers can cross the road to the centre to enter and leave the trams.

As for 531 biker (12) - yes, roads are paid for from general taxation, where the £53 BILLION contributed to general taxation by road users goes - and £8 billion comes out in road improvements and repairs. Difficult to say which gets the lion's share of that £8 billion - existing roads are in poor repair and not a lot of new roads have been built since Labour came to power, as they like to put it.
We get the quality of government that we elect - and Labour can't understand why they were thrown out last May!
16

Gothic Rose,

22/02/2008 09:55:52
11# After "smoking potatoes",this is the first laugh of the day.:)





17

Ron S,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 09:56:31
The 'bendy buses' in London, which replaced double-deckers, are 18m long. This length is proving to be a problem on corners for other road users.
The Edinburgh trams are 40m long.
Look at the video!
Beware of trams!
18

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:03:05
Some people just can't see the wood for the trees. Trams are coming and are city will be better for it, our transport infrastructure is light years behind, Europe, North America and Australia and people who have this negative attitude to spending public money on services for the good of the public really should be ashamed of themselves.

This adversion to any form of change really does drag our country down.
19

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:04:56
Some people just can't see the wood for the trees. Trams are coming and our city will be better for it. Our transport infrastructure is light years behind Europe, North America and Australia and people who have this negative attitude to spending public money on services for the good of the public really should be ashamed of themselves.

This adversion to any form of change really does drag our country down.
20

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 10:06:23
All those residents of Newhaven wanting to go to the airport will be very happy. What about the rest of us? I guess I'll use the bus. But it really is a brilliant way to spend £600 Million. Is it just me, or does anyone else think this is the work if idiots?
21

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 10:09:48
#19 Tram Man

And how exactly will be city be better with trams? It is certainly worse right now. And when they are introduced we will have to travel on trams on certain routes instread of busses. So what?
22

Himself,

Aberdeen 22/02/2008 10:11:00
How much did it cost to rid Scotland of its trams? Now why are we introducing a form of transport that wiser men ripped out? How does one tram overtake another ? Why not go for trolley buses, at least they can be manouvered more easily. Improve the roads, provide proper parking facilities, that will ease congestion and reduce air pollution.
23

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:17:35
Tin Man

Typical short sighted attitude. The roadworks currently going on are temporary and will produce a permanent transport infrastructure running through the heart of our city. This will in time grow throughout the whole city.

You need to crack a few eggs in order to make an omlette.
24

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:19:15
#22

Trams were ripped out because it was the age of the motor car and "wiser men" wrongly believed this was the future of transportation. The current situation is evidence of that mistake.
25

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 10:26:17
#23 Tram Man

I have travelled on plenty of trams and trolley-busses. You will have to enlighten me on how trams are any better than sitting on a bus.
26

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:42:56
#26

All in good time. Once the first section proves to be a major success (which it will) the negativity will disapear and the purse strings will open.
27

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 10:44:44
#27 Tram Man

An answer would be appreciated....
28

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:45:43
One line for what, £500+ million?! It's an unbelievable waste of money and could be far better spent on a)improving the existing bus services and b)re-opening some of Edinburgh's old railway lines such as the south sub. This would cost a fraction of the price of this hair brained scheme.

As an earlier poster pointed out, the line will only serve a tiny amount of the population of Edinburgh and will cover a route that is already well served by buses. It will most likely only ever cover the north side of town as well, as many of the main roads to the south side of Edinburgh are far too narrow to accomodate trams and struggle with the existing traffic as it is. There's no chance of a tram running any further than Tollcross for example, as the road up to Bruntsfield and Morningside is only one lane in either direction and two buses struggle to pass each other in some sections.

And what use is having ONE stop the full length of Princes Street?! Madness. How is that going to encourage people to leave their cars behind and jump on a tram if they have to lug shopping half way along Princes St to get on one of the things?! Not much use for the elderly or disabled.

This project is swiftly becoming yet another bottomless money pit and after the initial rush of people riding the trams to see what they're like, will become no more than extremely expensive tourist attractions.
29

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 10:48:32
#28

An answer to what exactly?
30

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 10:50:40
#29

Yup, and instead of getting on a bus in S. Edinburgh and travelling directly to Leith, we will have to change over to a tram on Princes Street.
31

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 10:51:36
#30 Tram Man

You will have to enlighten me on how trams are any better than sitting on a bus.
32

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:04:01
#30

1) Far more reliable, you'll know exactly when a tram will arrive and exactly when you'll arrive at your destination.

If you have used public transport abroad i am willing to bet you have used a tram system ahead of a bus service if one has been available.

2) Far more environmentally friendly.

And for the record the cities bus service is already running at capacity, increasing it is not an option. Just to put that one to bed.
33

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:04:43
#31

Something tells me you live in the South of Edinburgh Tin Man........
34

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:10:22
34

So a tram's never late then is it? And what happens if one breaks down? It can't just be moved out of the way and easily replaced like a bus can. LRT's newest buses are now using much cleaner diesel and are far more envirnmentally friendly than before. Also, where do you think the majority of the electricity used to power the trams comes from? Fossil fuel power stations, that's where. So whilst the trams may be cleaner at the point of use, they are no more environmentally friendly than a bus in the long term.

And yes, I live on the south side of Edinburgh and the trams will be of zero benefit to me what so ever. I would far rather see the money spent on a reopened south sub and more cleaner, greener buses.
35

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 11:14:42
Tram Man

No, personally I chose the Ford Transit mini-buses in preferance to the trams - faster and let you off where you wanted to get off.

If the Edinburgh Council was actually concerned for the environment they would force LRT to convert their buses to run on compressed natural gas, rather than diesil. I guess the trams will be powered by the Longannet coal-fired station.

Oh, yes I do live in S. Edinburgh :-) We won't be getting any trams here, though.
36

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:22:32
#36

I'm sure you don't honestly think that Buses are more reliable than Trams in term of sticking to time table. If a tram breaks down it will be removed from the network in a similar fashion to a bus being removed from the road.

"LRT's newest buses are now using much cleaner diesel and are far more envirnmentally friendly than before."......but still not as environmentally friendly as trams.

The tram will come to the south in time, but you have to start somewhere and the logical starting point is connecting the city centre with the airport.
37

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 11:24:49
#38n Tram Man

I find the busses in Edinburgh keep pretty much to their timetables. I am really quite impressed by the service.
38

Miss Jean Brodie,

22/02/2008 11:25:56
Trams = nae detour during road works - breakdowns - road accidents - power cuts - sheesh ! The future of public transport is well considered.
39

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:26:42
#37

Oh right, those Ford Transit bus systems that are all the rage in Paris, Berlin, Brussells, Madrid, Dublin, Strasbourg, Melbourne, Sydney, Hong Kong and countless other cities with transport systems that makes our current set up a complete laughing stock.
40

williamx,

canada 22/02/2008 11:28:14
Vancouver, BC uses trolley buses. No street tear up. Nothing blocking auto traffic as they act like buses and move to the side to take on or eject passengers. Cheap to buy and instal overhead lines.
Only in Scotland could they be building 1930's technology at fantastic cost. I wonder who is on the make on this one?
41

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:30:55
#39

I'd love to live in the bubble that you seem to live in.

Lets just keep the status quo and see our roads reduced to gridlock because change is something to be afraid of and spending large sums of public money for the benefit of the public is something that should be frowned apon. No wonder Britain is going down the pan.
42

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 11:32:17
#42

...and Delhi, which has a wonderful tube service. Funilly enough, they don't have trams. Nor does Paris. However, I did find myself using the bus in a city that has an extensive tram network.
43

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:36:28
#43

So you are proposing replacing buses with buses........

I'm aware of this system and they are effectively buses run on a different power source and as i have already state the bus network is running at capacity.

44

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 11:39:10
#46

No, I am merely stating that the vast sums of public money that are being wontonly wasted on this poster-excercise is an insult.
45

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:39:32
#45

You seem to be a fan of Dehli where they combine a light rapid transit system with a bus service but you are against it in Edinburgh, interesting!
46

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:39:45
Tram man- lovely obfuscation. Clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

Lets examine one point more closely-
When a tram breaks down, how exactly do you remove it from the road?
47

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 11:42:06
#46

The particulate matter / smog generated by running a diesil engine is vastly more than that generated by burning gas. I remember hearing that Shandwick Place was one of the most polluted streets in the UK.
48

Captainofedinburgh,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:42:21
Tram Man

How can a tram be removed from the line the same way a bus can be removed from the roadway?! If a tram breaks down, it blocks the entire line and nothing can move past it. Even if there are cross over points to allow overtaking broken down trams, it will still cause massive delays. If a bus breaks down, it can simply be overtaken by other road users and buses and a replacement can easily drive out to the scene.

Tin Man makes a good point in suggesting the money could of been used to convert buses to run on LPG or other forms of alternative fuels. And Tram Man, please inform me how exactly a tram is supposed to run through Morningside, Newington, Marchmont, Polwarth etc etc where the roads are by in large single carriageway and barely wide enough for two buses to pass in places?
49

Miss Jean Brodie,

22/02/2008 11:46:09
Trams = Save on taxi fares direct from Airport to the Scottish Exec admin hq - naebody else matters !


50

Miss Jean Brodie,

22/02/2008 11:47:40
Trams = flawed transport solution from a Flawed Labour Cooncil Administration
51

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:48:52
#49

That's a big word. Clearly you know what you are talking about so i'll let you have a stab at it.

I could copy and paste the manual for you but it's a long read.
52

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 11:51:37
#53 Jean Brodie

Yes, you may have a point, there. Uncanny, isn't it?
53

PaulB,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 11:58:14
H have watched the film and am impressed. The trams look streamlined, modern and they will be a great asset to the city. I can't wait to be able to use them. A couple of year's disruption will be a minor inconvenience. I travel by bus already, and the delays have been minimal. TIE and the Council seem to be working well to keep traffic moving. Delays are worse in any case during the festival period. Bring on the trams!
54

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 22/02/2008 11:58:18
Since when was a tram-line a piece of 'world-class infrastructure'! It is just a tram.
55

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:01:06
#52

In the rare event that a tram breaks down it will cause a short delay until it is taken back to the depot. It will not effect the rest of the traffic on street running sections any differently that a bus breaking down as the outside lane will still be open.
56

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:03:38
#58

Tinny, who exactly are you quoting?
57

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:11:08
jdships #14- thanks. Several of my friends cannot even drive because they use Edinburghs bus network and walk.
Buses are more flexible as well, they can even travel down different streets should one be close due to a festival/ terrorist incident/ potential suicide/ demonstration/ gas mains work/ burst water main/ multiple car pile up.
58

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:12:05
But how, Tram man, how? Will the tram driver lift up up and carry it there? Will it be towed by a special breakdown tram? Will the passengers push it? Or perhaps you can put a broken down tram on a low loader?
59

Francis Edinburgh,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:18:33
Can I use my bus pass thats what I want to know or do I have to pay extra to use the trams and will the buses still run along Princes Street or will I have to change buses.

When I want to cross the road will the trams be stopped at the traffic lights or do they have the right of way
60

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:22:23
Tram man- I'll settle for an url. Are you saying you actually have the manual for the Edinburgh trams there with you?
61

Ron S,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:26:47
Lothian Buses' argument against circular bus routes is that because of their shape, they accumulate any delays. The delays would get worse as the day goes on. The tram line, being a there-and-back route is also effectively circular and will therefore suffer from the same problem.
62

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:26:56
# 62

Alex Salmond and John Swinney pull it back to the depot in a world strongest man style.

Sorry was that too obfuscating for you?

63

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:32:06
#62 I would imagine that, as with other systems in the UK and elsewhere, that trams can be coupled together in emergency situations such as this. Electric motive power is much more reliable than diesel buses in any case, so it is not going to happen very often, but if you are really interested in this, rather than just carping, why don't you ask TIE?
64

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:32:20
#63

Fares for the trams and buses will be integrated so yes you will.

Buses will still run on Princes Street and Tram will stop at traffic lights on street running sections.
65

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:32:51
#66- if you don't know the answer you can always say so.
As for big words, bring them on, especially if you don't have anything else to say.
66

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:33:29
#67

Spot on.
67

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:35:06
#69

Here to discuss the future Edinburgh Tram Network not your ego.
68

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:48:15
#67- I see no need to ask TIE when we have someone calling themselves tram man and spouting boilerplate promises to everyone about how wonderful the trams will be, on here to ask instead. The fact that they have deteriorated to discussing my ego suggests they have run out of informative things to say.
69

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 12:56:55
# 72

You make me laugh.

On the contrary, you were the one who went off at a trangent talking about big words. #71 was merely to refocus you on the topic under discussion.
70

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 13:10:32
I didn't think anything could be a bigger waste of money than the new Scottish Parliament building.

But now we have the trams.
71

Council Insider,

Council HQ 22/02/2008 13:13:24
Tram Man you should concentrate on work rather than posting on here evry couple of minutes. How much am I paying you? Too much is the answer.
72

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 22/02/2008 13:14:16
How appropriate that the scheme should be produced by TIE - the cost will hang around Embra's neck like a millstone for years and years and years!
73

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 13:20:52
#73 - Have you actually done any research on this proposal or are you just here to make stupid points?

The Edinburgh tram line has a business case which is an absolute joke with so-called benefits overstated and a huge amount of downsides completely ignored.

The ONLY advantage a tram has that is not easily replicated by buses at a fraction of the cost is localised pollution - and even that can be taken care of now with fuel cell buses. Every other argument about capacity, speed of boarding, priority running can be implemented (and in most cases exceeded) for buses at very low cost.

Every single new build tram system in the UK has failed to deliver its itended economic benefits, which is why all proposed schemes in England were scrapped. It is madness to think that the most expensive one of the lot will somehow succeed where others failed.
74

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 13:24:02
Lets see tram man. I said you were obfuscating. You claimed that is a big word. And now you are saying I was the one talking about big words? Don't you know anything about trolling online? I give you a C grade.
75

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 13:25:38
I lived in Sheffield for a couple of years. They were supposed to get a tram network, like Edinburgh. They only ever built one line and that has never been a success. It transports a fair number of people, but was never good enough to justify putting other lines in across the city.
76

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 22/02/2008 13:25:58
#17 Ron S,

The bendy buses are a lot closer than London - they are also "the curse of Aberdeen" - many street corners have had to be "re-aligned" (widened) to allow these beautiful pieces of machinery(!) to get round them without ploughing down pedestrians / lamp posts / stray dogs and assorted items of street furniture... you get the picture. Add to this the fact that even after alignment works they can only be run on very few of the bus routes due to their turning circles being too great for manoeuvring at the terminuses (terminii?) and you can tell just how useful these buses really are.

Anyway, suffice to say, the tram lark will be n times worse then any bendy bus ever dreamed of. I, for one, will take strenuous steps to avoid Edinburgh if at all possible from now until oooh, let's say... until somebody has the great common sense to abolish the tram system entirely.
77

Guthrie,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 14:22:23
Scallywag- why are you on here asking about downtimes on breakdowns when you think you can get the infor elsewhere?
I ask questions on here because there seems to be someone here making claims about the trams. Unfortunately, they appear unable to point to any evidence for their claims, but hey, thats their problem.

And if you can point us to some decent comparisons with other tram systems, we shall be grateful.
78

hughie 2,

Logan city 22/02/2008 15:24:27
Hi Guys look on the bright side some people will make a lot of money out of the tram network and I suppose cynically some decision makers already have
we know that brown paper bags with small gift or cash ( Enough to buy a house)are an established way to obtain contracts.
But of course it wont be anybody we know. and if you do guess who they are
they will Deny it.

Maybe we should have built an underground like London.
Now I can hear your wee brain saying daft bu##*r
you cant drill through Edinburgh Rock.
Ok But I know different,
When I was a kid I used to get
'Rosses Confectionery Edinburgh Rock",
And it used to melt in your mouth.

Ps I was there for the last tram down the Mound and all everyone could say was getting rid of the trams was a good move PROGRESS they called it.

So now were going backwards. Duh!

Bring back guy foulkes he had the right idea.










79

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 15:28:06
#83 > If it fails then you can say 'I told you so' if its a success then what have you lost.

Scallywag, doesn't it make you even a tiny bit angry to see £500 million or more of our money being spent on nothing but years of disruption, delays and misery, and a poorer public transport system than before at the end of it?
80

Royalty,

22/02/2008 15:49:30
Trams are ideal for a fine city like Glasgow, Amsterdam or Manchester but the topography of Edinburgh does not lend itself to such transportation. £585 Million? Surely the money could be better spent. Mind you it will probably be needed for repairs to the dismal parliament building. I used to travel by bike until it became green & trendy. Now I stick to taxi's.
81

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 16:27:25
#87 > What makes me angry is that we are supposidly part of one of the richest countries in the world and we seem to have a problem investing in transport infrastructure. <

Fair enough. But £500 million is a monstrous gamble, to say nothing of the *guaranteed* near-paralysis of the city centre for not weeks or months, but years.
82

livilion,

livingston 22/02/2008 16:27:56

I'm sure Glasgow, Paisley, Dundee, Perth, Aberdeen, Inverness, North Haverbrook etc are all just champing at the bit to spend their readies on monorails and tramlines.

It's only money and they'll just spend it on something else like schools and hospitals if not on this.

Personally I anticipate the health benefits to the Princes Street shoppers of Edinburgh, that the tram will surely entice from their Chelsea tractors, walking home from the tramstop to Barnton and Morningside with their purchases.

Which is the stop for Tesco Corstorphine?
83

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 16:29:53
#87, and besides, Edinburgh's bus service is really pretty good - much better than most cities. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
84

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 16:33:57
In fact - what's wrong with the buses?!
85

livilion,

livingston 22/02/2008 16:39:19
91 Urban Guerrilla

Well if you were were buying an executive apartment by the waterfront, I mean buses aren't they terribly common and full of drunk people being sick all the time?...
86

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 16:42:43
#92, hehe - you've got it in one, I think. Doesn't worry me, however. I like the buses, and I'm much too common to be allowed to join the Greens or the LibDems!
87

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 16:48:14
#92, and I believe that on the trams there won't be a stack of free copies of the Metro. It'll be the Guardian.
88

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 17:31:32
What use are trams to the many Edinburgh residents that work out of town?

Edinburgh are working on the well documeneted Swiss model - narrow the streets and create congestion, eveident all round town already where formally 2 lanes been made into 1 and widths narrowed. The trams are a device for congestion charging, as they will create ongoing congestion.

For something so devestating to Edinburgh, why were residents not allowed a 'meaningful' say?

If asked now, even after money been spent, would be a majority against. SNP should not have allowed themselves to be bullied by other parties to rubber stamp this, which whilst their MSPs voted against, the SNP Executive approved.
89

Euan,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 18:02:11
The quite frankly terrible video of the proposed tram line is so out of touch and far from reality it beggars belief.

Not only this, the narrators voice is so hideously over-hyped and absurdly pro-tram it makes you shudder.

How very convenient how they simply leave out all the buses, taxis, vans, cars and lorries which have to use the streets of Edinburgh in the video. But thats what the muppets who have pushed this project through think - they will all just simply dissapear to make way for their new toy tram.

There is one thing though, the video does reflect a very dismal reality - the rest of the City of Edinburgh and all it's citizens can go to hell while all the attention(and money)is focused on this diabolical, hair-brained project.

It should be stopped now before our wonderful city is ruined forever.

'Tram Man' - Looks like you've been paid a nice backhander from TIE haven't you?. Wake up, grow up an SHUT UP.





90

Buttress,

22/02/2008 18:46:19
The video bears a very strong resemblance to the one promoting Caltongate - say no more.

91

Gordon (not Brown or Ramsay),

Dunbar 22/02/2008 20:45:25
What about all those attractive overhead electric wires and their supports?
I could understand and support trams that have a dedicated route such as a light railway would have (eg Newcastle Metro).
I'd rather the "cooncil" spent the money fixing the joke that is Sheriffhall roundabout.
Deliberately causing traffic congestion is hardly environmentally friendly (think about it!) - though it may be politically a clever card to play.
And while I'm on a rant - why o' why are the buses (owned by the "cooncil" still allowed to use Princes Street) - if there is one good outcome from the introduction of the trams, I hope it is that all other vehicles will be banned from Princes Street - if so, they now get my vote!
92

jdships,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 21:17:30
Tram Man

You are obviously entitled to your opinion and are trying hard to justify that opinion.
Unfortunately you are defending the indefensible .
The cost of this network along with the , as yet not revealed, added extras cannot be justified given the cost .
What percentage of the citizens of Edinburgh will benifit directly from this ? Do you have a figure ?
I have had quoted to me 5%/8% a poor return on the capital expenditure involved.
Have you taken into consideration the traffic congestion which will be caused by buses/lorries/cars being banned from the tram route ?

I spent 30 years in the road transport industry both in public transport and haulage and still feel there was nothing wrong with continuing to develop the LRT network.

This whole project could easily become another "Holyrood" but as one SNP/LIB Councillor recently told me " It will certainly become a major tourist attraction "
WOW ! Whose side is he on I wonder ?
93

Euan,

Edinburgh 23/02/2008 00:15:28
I feel that the most disappointing thing about the tram project is that the citizens of Edinburgh have had no say whatsoever as to whether they would like or even need a tram line built into their City.

Once the previous Labour administration had their ridiculous congestion charge booted out, they seemed set on revenge on Edinburgh's residents.

The plan - deliberately mess-up Edinburgh's road network, cleverly co-ordinate transport-crippling roadworks and in the process force this tram line through Parliament without the consent of the good people of this fine City.

Had we been allowed to vote on this matter, the tram line, like the silly proposed congestion charge, would have been booted out of the park.

It was so sad the SNP backed down on their pre-election commitment to scrap this idiotic project, many of the votes they recieved came from this very promise.

The result - £600+ million of valuable taxpayers money being squandered on a tram line that serves a tiny percentage of Edinburgh's population and in the process causing unprecedented and needless congestion for other parts of the City.

The whole project is a total disgrace and is yet another kick in the stones for the Edinburgh resident from the delusioned visonaries who have taken their twisted dreams one step too far..
94

Mr A Roy,

23/02/2008 02:36:32
So the main atraction of Edinburgh is a Tram ! Well thats certainly going to bring in the shoppers i think not. What a complete waste of money. Cant wait for the wrong type of snow, and leaves to fall. £6 million farce
95

Goat Boy,

23/02/2008 10:01:13
Some interesting comments from the otherside of the world:

http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/stories/s1526676.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/enviro/EnviroRepublish_768017.htm

And a couple of points I have been highlighting for some time. A second opinion from someone in the business.

http://www.bathtram.org/tfb/tS01.htm
96

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 27/05/2008 08:01:06
#98 "http://www.bathtram.org/tfb/tS01.htm"

I live in Bath (after spending the first 20-odd years of my life in and around Edinburgh), and the Bath scheme shows exactly how trams could and should work. The routes suggested are currently almost traffic-free, and the city as a whole is very badly served by buses. Trams would serve an existing large gap in public transport provision, and be of potential use to anyone in the city, which is a nightmare to traverse by car.

The Edinburgh scheme shows almost precisely how NOT to implement trams. A single line serving hardly anyone, on already busy roads where the trams can only possibly cause more congestion rather than less, and which are already extremely well-served by buses. There's no rational explanation for why anyone not currently using Edinburgh public transport would do so upon the arrival of trams, and if there's really only going to be a single stop on Princes Street (which I didn't previously know) then casual shopper use - a vital factor both economically and environmentally - is going to be next to nil. People are more than happy to pay 60p or whatever to get from one end to the other and save themselves 20 minutes of walking with heavy shopping bags, but a tram with only one stop on the street would be by definition totally useless.

Trams in other cities can be sensible and practical. As proposed in Edinburgh they're a worthless vanity project, and for that they're an insanely expensive waste of money.

 

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